The End of the Incandescent Light – A Victory for Energy Conservation

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1. Nice points about the mercury
   Nice points about the mercury issue. As for the light quality, I agree the times have changed – before everything seemingly had a yellowish tint to it, now you get a nice white light, evenly spread out. 
    
    
    
   I am going to have to pick on you for using the word Conservation though Allison – Efficiency yes, Conservation no 
    
    
    
   Here’s hoping you have a great weekend

2. Well, you certainly have a
   Well, you certainly have a point there, Sean. CFLs and LEDs are more efficient than incandescent bulbs, but they may or may not save energy. If someone switches out an incandescent for a CFL, though, and doesn’t change anything else (like leaving that light on 24/7 after the change when they used it only 10 hours/day before), then that efficiency leads to conservation. 
    
   And if you recall my post on Efficiency vs. Conservation, you should also remember that I’m not interested in efficiency that doesn’t lead to conservation. 
    
   I hope you have a great weekend, too, and a great trip to Baltimore next week!

3. This makes my head explode.
   This makes my head explode. 
    
   So mercury is bad coming from Power Plants, but good coming from CFL’s? 
    
   Each CFL has as about mercury as the dot of the end of this sentence. Multiply that thousands of times, and you could a quart size jar very quickly. Consider the fact 90% of these bulbs WILL NOT be recycled. The environmentalist need to stop being delusional, these bulbs WILL NOT be recycled. When someone that lives in a rural area, 15 miles miminum from recycling center, that bulb is going into the trash, or worse yet, burned. 
    
   I’m sorry but you can’t have it both ways with Mercury.  
    
   The second issue is that these bulbs can’t be used with dimmers, in ceiling fans, in enclosed fixtures, upside down, in downlight or recessed cans because of overheating, outside in cold weather. Worse yet, they can start house fires if put into a circuit with a dimmer. ALso, if you use them light a regular light bulb, turning them on and off, it shortens the life by 80% 
    
   So basically, we are replacing a safe, cheap effective popular commodity, with something that can’t be used in roughly 50% of the applications that it’s designed for, can actually start house fires if used improperly and this is very easy to do, and cost three times as much? 
    
   This doesn’t make sense.  

4. Wow Art – tell us how you
   Wow Art – tell us how you really feel 🙂  
    
   Good point on the non recycling, I will admit it, I have tossed a few out, especially when one broke.  
    
   As for the ceiling fans – bull I have them in all of mine.  
    
   Dimmers – correct to some extent. You need to buy one that is meant for that, but they are out there. 
    
   As for the 80% – sorry that’s just a crock & has been proven beyond a doubt… best performer is LEDS on long lasting 
    
    
    
   Allison, thanks & you know I just had to yank your chain a little. Have a great weekend

5. Art, you’ve got plenty of
   Art, you’ve got plenty of company in the “This makes my head explode” group. Governments banning incandescent light bulbs is seen as meddling by quite a few people. They raise some good points, as you have, but as you can tell from this article, I’m not in that group. 
    
   Sean’s done a good job responding to your comments, but I’ll add a bit more. First, I never said here that I’m an environmentalist. As it turns out, I do consider myself to be one, but I don’t strike the harsh stances on some issues that many environmentalists do. (For example, I’m actually not entirely opposed to nuclear power.)  
    
   On the mercury issue, however, environmentalists are split. The hard core environmentalists won’t have anything to do with CFLs because of the mercury.  
    
   Now, regarding your statement that ‘mercury is good coming from CFLs,’ nowhere in my article did I say anything like that. What I said was that the amount of mercury that CFLs keep out of our soil and water more than offsets any mercury that gets into same from improper disposal of the bulbs. I find it interesting that mercury in fluorescent lamps was never an issue in the decades before the CFL came out, even though regular fluorescent tubes have more of it than CFLs do. 
    
   Regarding your claim that CFLs cost three times as much as incandescents, my response is that, no, actually CFLs are cheaper than incandescents, and it makes financial sense to replace all of your incandescents immediately because the payback is only about 3 months. More on that in a future article. 

6. Allison, 
   
   Allison, 
    
   I do appreciate the debate. Most of the time, they just delete the post. 
    
    
   I forgot that can’t be used in damp locations like bathrooms, again it shortens the lifespan. 
    
   Frequent Cycling shortens CFL Lifespan 
    
   http://www.greenled.co.za/CFL.htm 
    
   http://www.cityofmarshall.com/faqs/106 
    
   There’s link after link of shortened life and hundreds of anecdotes. Britain switched over last year and I have been following the effects very closely. The biggest complaints come from bulbs not lasting, some failing within a week, or at the most, a year and very poor output. 
    
   Failure at end of life can include smoke, small fire and burned bases. 
    
   Here’s an actual video from youtube of a CFL beginning to smolder while in operation. This is NOT an uncommon occurrence. 
    
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0JFH5BOZwE 
    
    
   three times as much as incandescents, my response is that, no, actually CFLs are cheaper than incandescents,  
    
   —>If they don’t last as long, the savings are mute. Again, it’s one of those can’t have it both ways, if you want cheap bulbs= lower quality, shortened lifespan and poor color rendering. Another issue is that CFL’s are more sensitive to line voltage issues and can knock them out quickly. I have old school 1970’s high end stereo equipment as part of my sound system and CFL’s are unbelievably noisy, to the point to where I can’t record or playback ANYTHING. My vintage radios don’t like them either. I finally banished the bulbs to the garage. 
    
   It’s an absolute mindboggle when you read report after report of people saying-“I replaced that CFL bulb 3 times last year, and it keeps going out. I guess I’ll buy another one.” Yet they’ll say later in that same post-“That incan in my bedside lamp has been going for over a year.” There’s a serious disconnect there.  
    
    
    
   Most corporations are required to have these bulbs recycled professionally.  
    
    
   I know this might sound trite, but there is something to be said about the quality of light and life. I spend all day under fluorescents at work. When I come home, I want the warmth and the much cleaner light from incans. My absolute favorite ceiling fan bulb is a flame iridescent that produces a very clean, warmer light. Because this bulb is clear glass, to be blunt, there’s no way in hell a CFL can produce it. It’s just not possible.  
    
   At this point, I have been slowly stockpiling since I found out about this bill in 2007. Which, by the way, was heavily endorsed and sponsored by GE. Follow the money trail, saving the environment had little to do with it. 
   

7. Art, no, I don’t delete
   Art, no, I don’t delete comments simply because I disagree with the author. I delete only if someone is being abusive (which hasn’t happened here yet) or just posting to get a link to their website.  
    
   You can cite all the anecdotal claims about short lifetimes you want, but my experience has been the opposite. As I said in the article, I’ve been using CFLs since ’92, and only a couple have had problems. The rest are all still working today, as many as 18 years after I first bought and installed them.  
    
   The high quality bulbs that I’ve bought are all still working. The only ones that failed were the inexpensive, made-in-China CFLs. I prefer Phillips because they last, and you would not be able to pick them out from incandescents if you couldn’t see the bulb.  
    
   The more important point, however, is that the ban on incandescents doesn’t require you to buy CFLs. You just have to get something that’s at least 30% better than incandescents. If you don’t like CFLs, buy LEDs. Oh, and certain specialty lamps are exempted, so you can keep your clear glass candelabra incandescent lamps in your ceiling fan if you’d like.

8. Allison, 
   
   Allison, 
    
   Thanks again for responding. If you look at the bill more carefully, by 2020, ALL lighting has to meet a certain efficiency level. 
    
   From the bill 
    
   (i) IN GENERAL- Not later than January 1, 2020, the Secretary shall initiate a rulemaking procedure to determine whether– 
    
   ‘(I) standards in effect for general service incandescent lamps should be amended to reflect lumen ranges with more stringent maximum wattage than the standards specified in paragraph (1)(A); and 
    
   ‘(II) the exemptions for certain incandescent lamps should be maintained or discontinued based, in part, on exempted lamp sales data collected by the Secretary from manufacturers. 
    
   This bill also specifically states that if the exempted bulbs suddenly jump in sales of 100% or more, then they will be included in the ban. 
    
   I will concede that some the LED replacement mini spot lights are very close to incans. 
    
   Also the bulbs that I use are NOT candelabra base, they are the normal size base. The ceiling fans I use are built in the 1920’s and use arm style integral light kits. 
    
   So much of this light bulb ban was based on misinformation, mislabeling, and junk science. I studied this extensively, and understand the science behind it. 
    
   I agree that we need to get off of coal, and save oil for other things. Natural gas and Nuclear are the best options. There’s huge untapped reserves of Natural Gas(which is far better for the environment), one of the biggest reserves is under Dallas/Ft Worth. But, it’s a fallacy that “Green” energy can supply the base energy to keep the grid stable. Renewable energy comes into play during peak demand (extremely hot days when everyone is running air conditioners). In fact, my area (central texas) gets renewable energy from wind turbines in West Texas. However, it can actually RAISE the bill and believe me, TXU is not cheap to begin with.  
    
   I’m getting off on a tangent here, but this seems to be story with just about every green product. It cost more and doesn’t work as well.  
    
   My point is this, banning incandescents will not do that much for the base energy needed to keep the grid stable, and essentially, because CFL’s are more expensive and the cheaper ones go out more often (which even you just admitted),amounts to no more than a tax on poor people and lower middle class. All this is doing is making a commodity that’s necessary to modern living ( light and light bulbs) more expensive. 
    
   Yes, they can save money, and can relieve a little of the stress on the grid. However, because the power gens have to keep a certain amount of reserve on the line for emergencies and peak loads. The amount saved by switching to CFL’s is about 1% at best. It will not have the effect of taking power generators off line. 
    
   Finally, please think about what I just posted about making light more expensive, and consider your answer. I wait your reply. 
    
   Thanks again

9. Art, yes, I said that the
   Art, yes, I said that the cheap CFLs aren’t as good as the ones made by Phillips. In my experience, though, the failure rate isn’t as high as anti-CFL crusaders claim. 
    
   Now, about your discussion of energy supplies, no, there are NOT huge, untapped supplies of natural gas anywhere in North America. The US hit its peak of gas production in the ’70s, and I believe the North American peak may have been in the ’90s.  
    
   Also, Canada is using more and more of its gas to process the oil sands, so it ain’t coming from there. Because of NAFTA, we export gas to Mexico. And Texas is the most drilled state in the country. Believing that untapped reserves in that state are going to save us is pure fantasy. 
    
   If you want to understand the difficulty we’ve gotten ourselves into with regards to energy, please read my article from a week ago, “The End of Growth – Mathematics & Peak Oil.” Be sure to watch all 8 segments of the video by Dr. Bartlett.

10. Allison, 
    
    Allison, 
     
    I do understand about Peak Oil, my parents and aunt work in an oil related business and they get reports from time to time. What’s scary is that there’s been legitimate reports that the Middle East has been shooting salt water into wells to increase production. This is not good, usually this is done when wells are close to tapping out. 
     
    However, the reserves of Natural gas could be a stop gap. 
     
    http://www.naturalgas.org/overview/resources.asp 
     
    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=113043935 
     
    But until Obama gets his, pardon my french, his head out of his ass, and actually does something that helps us. Such clearing roadblocks so Nuclear energy (think France, whose been nuclear energy safely for years) can expand. Then we’ll see some progress.  
     
    Green energy can a good supplement to the base line. However, Obama’s policies on energy such as possible cap and trade, are scaring most of the oil companies off, as most have stopped drilling and waiting to see what’s going to happen. 
     
    On exporting Gas to Mexico, I’m not sure about that, as most of the border towns are reporting that Diesel is cheaper in Mexico. 
     
    http://www.thedieselstop.com/forums/f33/why-diesel-so-cheap-mexico-196825/ 
     
    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91748758 
     
    Though I get a feeling that a lot of that is price control by the government.  
     
    However, I think we are kinda on the same page here. I agree that Something needs to be done about the energy supply. I’m not cool with disappearing mountaintops to mine coal. But taxing cheap energy is not the key, a good comprehensive energy plan that seriously explores solid, alternative energy sources, is what we need. Especially when Obama’s answer is taxing the base supply when there’s nothing to replace it.

11. Allison, 
    
    Allison, 
     
    Sorry for two post in a row, but take a look at this site, (warning, it’s pretty long) and read the final couple of paragraphs. 
     
    http://greenwashinglamps.wordpress.com/category/incandescent-ban/anti-lightbulb-campaign/ 
     
    Scroll down and pay particular close attention to the Conclusion.

12. Maybe you aren’t
    Maybe you aren’t aware of this, but coal-burning electric power plants put A LOT of mercury into the atmosphere.  
     
    What if humanity at large finally makes a full conversion to renewable energy? Here in Australia, solar electricity is gaining rapid interest. A vast majority of the houses in my town have already started switching to solar systems – and when I spent some time working with a local solar installation company, I found that we had our work cut out for us. Besides, that still doesn’t affect the fact that there will be millions of CFLs dumped in landfill, where hazardous materials like mercury can accumulate. From what I’ve noticed, very few people actually recycle them – most toss them straight in the trash can like they used to do with incandescents.  
     
    Despite the pollution from coal-fired power stations, I would’ve thought that you’d have noticed that the incorrect disposal of CFLs will only add to the problem of mercury pollution. 
     
    As for the ceiling fans – bull I have them in all of mine.  
     
    We have standard E27 12W CFLs installed in our ceiling fans, of which we have ten in the house. So far one of them failed within a couple of months, and the rest have ended up cooking themselves – with their plastic casings melting and warping. I opened up a one such example, to compare the ballast to an unused spare. Aside from various other damage to the components and PCB, I noted that the polyester film capacitors (“green caps”) had actually turned brown and black from heat exposure. One of the flaws of incandescent lights is the ratio of heat output to light output. However, consider the energy required to generate such heat within these CFLs to cause such damage. I might add that they are used in ventilated fittings. 
     
    As for the 80% – sorry that’s just a crock & has been proven beyond a doubt… best performer is LEDS on long lasting  
     
    I would be interested in seeing a source for your information. It has been professionally proven that the life of the CFL ballast can be reduced by constant switching. 
     
    You can cite all the anecdotal claims about short lifetimes you want, but my experience has been the opposite. As I said in the article, I’ve been using CFLs since ’92, and only a couple have had problems. The rest are all still working today, as many as 18 years after I first bought and installed them.  
     
    There’s a problem with your point – those are two different types of technology. Earlier CFLs, such as the Philips SL-18s and SL-25s, use magnetic ballasts. They can last for many years, as they aren’t prone to the same wear as more modern CFLs with electronic ballasts. They can also hold up against mains transient voltages far better than the electronic ballasts found in newer CFLs.  
     
    When I come home, I want the warmth and the much cleaner light from incans. My absolute favorite ceiling fan bulb is a flame iridescent that produces a very clean, warmer light. Because this bulb is clear glass, to be blunt, there’s no way in hell a CFL can produce it. It’s just not possible.  
     
    I have to agree with you. I can’t stand CFLs, and am a fan of incandescents. I’ve found that CFLs actually prompt headaches when I’m working near them for extended periods of time – something that I’ve never experienced with standard incandescent lights. 
     
    and CFL’s are unbelievably noisy,  
     
    This is a very good point, and one that has been proven extensively. The electronic ballast (more specifically the SMPS) in CFLs can generate lots of RFI, similar to the way a refrigerator compressor can, affecting sensitive electronic equipment – especially RF receiving equipment. Many vintage radio collectors (myself being a collector of vintage television and radio equipment) find this to be quite problematic. 
     
     
    Regarding your claim that CFLs cost three times as much as incandescents, my response is that, no, actually CFLs are cheaper than incandescents, and it makes financial sense to replace all of your incandescents immediately because the payback is only about 3 months. More on that in a future article.  
     
    Hmm, why do I sense ignorance in this? Like many people, you have overlooked the amount of energy required to manufacture a CFL. Compare a CFL, particularly with it’s electronic ballast (think about the energy required to manufacture each individual component) to the simplicity of an incandescent. Which one do you think required more energy to manufacture? The CFL by a long shot of course. Also, think about this – CFLs, to be beneficial for the environment, must be recycled (those that don’t accumulate in landfill anyways). Incandescents however, don’t need to be recycled as they don’t contain the same hazardous materials as CFLs. Think about the energy required to effectively and efficiently recycle CFLs… On top of that, think about the extra petroleum and wear on your car required for trips to recycling/drop-off centres, to safely dispose of the CFLs. 
     
    Another point I’d like to add: 
     
    CFLs have a certain warm-up period, meaning it takes a while for them to reach maximum light output. Incandescent bulbs have an almost instantaneous warm-up period due to the simplicity and nature of their design. Think about locations where light is only required for minutes at a time, making the warm-up period unacceptable, such as in bathrooms, spare rooms, laundries and cupboards. When people switch to CFLs, they are more likely to leave the light on for extended periods of time to avoid the annoying warm-up period typical of CFLs. With incandescent bulbs, people can turn them on and off as desired, without having to wait several minutes for them to reach max. light output. This is an issue I have personally observed on a frequent basis during my travels. 
     
    Just some food for thought. 
     
    Chris 
     
    

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