Fiberglass Insulation Manufacturer Gets Serious About Installation

This Post Has 38 Comments

1. Totally agreed it’s
   Totally agreed it’s installation issue, but also think this material should only be used (if at all – we don’t and won’t if I’m being fully transparent) if it’s in conjunction with some serious air-sealing work being done via a flash of foam, exterior foam, smart-materials being used as air barriers on exteriors, etc, etc.

2. I have been a GC for many
   I have been a GC for many years and have never understood how stapling paper faced insulation to the side of the studs instead of on the face is acceptable. The insulation is being compressed along both sides by 1". I know that it is faster for the installer and sheetrockers hate face-nailing of insulation, but I usually insist on my homes.

3. WOW- us spray foam
   WOW- us spray foam contractors (at least in part) fear this knowledge because it is installed badly in most homes, usually by sub sub contractors, and is a large part of its reputation of not being sufficient in harsh weather. Also since it is handled and crushed from the end of the assembly line(chopped) crunched into bundles and crunched into homes,its fluffy (valuable)start is diminished in the whole process. I know at one time it’s R-Value was tested in a "scientific process" including a vacuum chamber. I wonder if this is still allowed? Noone I know lives in a vacuum so it didn’t seem like a fair test that would help consumers make better choices. Yes, the install matters, air blowing past it on the paper edging negates the value . Maybe a seal of caulk all along the stapled area would accomplish this fully. Love this discussion on Fiberglass Insulation

4. My favorite comparison is one
   My favorite comparison is one that I heard many years ago. The same material is used as insulation in one case and as a furnace filter in another. I agree that batt insulation needs to have air infiltration stopped by other means. That means sealing the wall cavities in stick framed construction. I use only monolithic precast concrete panels in my homes so this is not an issue.

5. Thanks to serious education
   Thanks to serious education by Southface and others, we have been wholeheartedly trying to install fiberglass batts to grade 1 standards for several years. Inspections by code enforcers and others have demonstrated the success. One thing is clear, we have not yet arrived, but, then again, I don’t know of any other type of insulation installed perfectly. As to air sealing, we are regularly achieving 2.8 to 3.6 ACH50 under blower door tests…and we use only can spray foam, but we are tenacious with the process. The biggest issue (in my opinion) is and always has been trying to do as little as possible and get by.

6. Well, OC could be offering
   Well, OC could be offering the higher density, higher R-Value batts they sell in Canada. That would show some commitment to better performance.&nbsp; <br />&nbsp; <br />How about it OC?

7. All pre-formed insulation
   All pre-formed insulation (batts, boards, panels, etc.) used within wall studs are predicated on having a uniform space to fill. This is error #1. There are no uniform spaces within wall studs (bows, twists, non-plumb corners, etc.) so the installation of any pre-formed insulation will never be completely Grade 1 nor will it be over time as wood moves. Hence the superiority of dense-pack and spray foam for wall cavities and board/panel exterior insulation for new construction and deep-energy retrofits. So, again, the question is "do you want a quick, cheap, or good solution (pick 1)"? Pre-formed is the cheap solution.

8. Something else (based on the
   Something else (based on the above photos) – why would anyone use fiberglass insulation between the rough opening and frame of doors and windows when there is the much superior low-pressure foam? I guess because OC does not sell low-pressure foam insulation – which makes this whole effort that much more dubious.

9. Totally agreed it’s
   Totally agreed it’s installation issue, but also think this material should only be used (if at all – we don’t and won’t if I’m being fully transparent) if it’s in conjunction with some serious air-sealing work being done via a flash of foam, exterior foam, smart-materials being used as air barriers on exteriors, etc, etc.

10. I have been a GC for many
    I have been a GC for many years and have never understood how stapling paper faced insulation to the side of the studs instead of on the face is acceptable. The insulation is being compressed along both sides by 1″. I know that it is faster for the installer and sheetrockers hate face-nailing of insulation, but I usually insist on my homes.

11. WOW- us spray foam
    WOW- us spray foam contractors (at least in part) fear this knowledge because it is installed badly in most homes, usually by sub sub contractors, and is a large part of its reputation of not being sufficient in harsh weather. Also since it is handled and crushed from the end of the assembly line(chopped) crunched into bundles and crunched into homes,its fluffy (valuable)start is diminished in the whole process. I know at one time it’s R-Value was tested in a “scientific process” including a vacuum chamber. I wonder if this is still allowed? Noone I know lives in a vacuum so it didn’t seem like a fair test that would help consumers make better choices. Yes, the install matters, air blowing past it on the paper edging negates the value . Maybe a seal of caulk all along the stapled area would accomplish this fully. Love this discussion on Fiberglass Insulation

12. My favorite comparison is one
    My favorite comparison is one that I heard many years ago. The same material is used as insulation in one case and as a furnace filter in another. I agree that batt insulation needs to have air infiltration stopped by other means. That means sealing the wall cavities in stick framed construction. I use only monolithic precast concrete panels in my homes so this is not an issue.

13. Thanks to serious education
    Thanks to serious education by Southface and others, we have been wholeheartedly trying to install fiberglass batts to grade 1 standards for several years. Inspections by code enforcers and others have demonstrated the success. One thing is clear, we have not yet arrived, but, then again, I don’t know of any other type of insulation installed perfectly. As to air sealing, we are regularly achieving 2.8 to 3.6 ACH50 under blower door tests…and we use only can spray foam, but we are tenacious with the process. The biggest issue (in my opinion) is and always has been trying to do as little as possible and get by.

14. Well, OC could be offering
    Well, OC could be offering the higher density, higher R-Value batts they sell in Canada. That would show some commitment to better performance. 
     
    How about it OC?

15. All pre-formed insulation
    All pre-formed insulation (batts, boards, panels, etc.) used within wall studs are predicated on having a uniform space to fill. This is error #1. There are no uniform spaces within wall studs (bows, twists, non-plumb corners, etc.) so the installation of any pre-formed insulation will never be completely Grade 1 nor will it be over time as wood moves. Hence the superiority of dense-pack and spray foam for wall cavities and board/panel exterior insulation for new construction and deep-energy retrofits. So, again, the question is “do you want a quick, cheap, or good solution (pick 1)”? Pre-formed is the cheap solution.

16. Something else (based on the
    Something else (based on the above photos) – why would anyone use fiberglass insulation between the rough opening and frame of doors and windows when there is the much superior low-pressure foam? I guess because OC does not sell low-pressure foam insulation – which makes this whole effort that much more dubious.

17. The failure of most building
    The failure of most building materials is installation which could be directed toward the lack of serious training offered by manufacturer’s. Maybe this is their way to skate around warranty claims?

18. The failure of most building
    The failure of most building materials is installation which could be directed toward the lack of serious training offered by manufacturer’s. Maybe this is their way to skate around warranty claims?

19. My hat’s off to Owens Corning
    My hat’s off to Owens Corning but, what took so long?&nbsp; <br />This article was written in 1985, I think you will like it.&nbsp; <br />&nbsp; <br />"R" Your Getting What You "R" Paying For &nbsp; <br />&nbsp; <br />When choosing an insulation, don’t just compare the R-values generated under laboratory conditions. "Although the fundamental heat transmission characteristics of a material or system can be determined accurately, actual performance in a structure may vary from that indicated in the laboratory (20.3)*." The R-value of fiberglass insulation can be particularly deceiving, because the published R-values are based primarily on conductive heat. "For all types of insulating materials, conduction is not the sole mode of heat transfer (20.3)*." "The total conductance is the sum of a component resulting from radiation and a component resulting from convection and conduction combined. These components can vary independently of each other (20.8)*."&nbsp; <br />&nbsp; <br />Fiberglass insulation manufacturers don’t like to test their products for all forms of heat transfer because "The movement of air through an insulation system, either by natural or forced convection, has a deleterious effect on thermal performance (20.2)*." "Typical leakage rates in most structures are 6 to 10 air changes per hour (22.7)*". "Air movement by infiltration through a building envelope must be limited if the space is to be maintained at a condition different from outdoors (21.9)*." "Control of infiltration is an important strategy to assure thermal comfort and minimize energy use in buildings (22.7)*." Some "insulating materials can reduce air infiltration and provide additional fire resistance and noise control. Insulation also increases interior thermal comfort by controlling interior mean radiant temperatures resulting in more uniform air temperatures within the enclosure. Proper use of insulation can reduce the size of heating, cooling and ventilating equipment, reducing initial costs as well as annual operating costs (20.14)*." "It should not be assumed that leakage through the building envelope occurs primarily at doors and windows where there are visible joints. Studies have shown that leakage attributed to windows and doors constitute only about one-fifth of the total leakage. Leakage cracks and openings in walls and ceilings, especially at intersections, although not as obvious, make a far greater contribution to total leakage. Up to 70% of the total leakage openings were in walls, and up to 67% were through the ceiling, depending on the particular structure (21.9)*." "The infiltration of a building is proportional to its leakage area. Reducing the leakage area by 20% reduces the average infiltration of the building by the same percentage (22.16)*."&nbsp; <br />&nbsp; <br />"The effectiveness of thermal insulation is seriously impaired when it is improperly installed. Where there is a 4% void area in R-11 wall insulation, the heat loss is increased by 15%. A 4% void in the insulation of an R-19 ceiling results in an increase of 50% in heat loss.* When thin wall insulation is installed vertically with air spaces on both sides, air interchange around the insulation increases the heat loss by 60% (20.8)*." "To attain published or claimed thermal resistance values, it is essential to provide convection and infiltration barriers, to seal cracks in joints and to install insulation so that gaps and voids around and within the materials do not occur. It has been established that 3% edge gaps (stapling batts on the inside of the studs) around insulation can produce 30% loss in effective R value (20.2)*." "A continuous air infiltration barrier is one of the most effective means of reducing air leakage through walls, around windows and door frames and at joints between major building elements (22.11)*." "Effectiveness can be greatly reduced if openings, even very small ones, exist in the retarder. Such openings can be caused by poor workmanship during application, poorly sealed joints and edges, insufficient coating thickness, improper caulking and flashing, uncompensated thermal expansion, mechanical forces, aging and other forms of degradation." Even an excellent vapor retarder is of little benefit if it can be bypassed by a current of air (20.10)*." "The function of insulation is clear; it reduces energy loss from a surface operating at a temperature other than ambient. Optimum use of insulation can: (1.) reduce operating expenditures for energy, (2.) improve process efficiency, (3.) increase system output capacity or reduce required equipment capacity and its capital cost and (4.) reduce overhead, maintenance, fire and personnel insurance, and other plant expenses. The most important benefit of insulation is the energy conserved and resulting savings in fuel and power costs (20.10)*."&nbsp; <br />&nbsp; <br />In the average structures being built using fiberglass insulation, it is not uncommon to see 45% total heat loss in walls and 50% in ceilings. These figures do not take into account any loss of R-values due to compression in the cavities, which can add up to an additional 30%.&nbsp; <br />&nbsp; <br />*Note: The above quotations are taken from the American Society of Heating, Refrigeration and Air-conditioning Engineers (ASHRAE) Fundamentals Handbook

20. My hat’s off to Owens Corning
    My hat’s off to Owens Corning but, what took so long? 
    This article was written in 1985, I think you will like it. 
     
    “R” Your Getting What You “R” Paying For  
     
    When choosing an insulation, don’t just compare the R-values generated under laboratory conditions. “Although the fundamental heat transmission characteristics of a material or system can be determined accurately, actual performance in a structure may vary from that indicated in the laboratory (20.3)*.” The R-value of fiberglass insulation can be particularly deceiving, because the published R-values are based primarily on conductive heat. “For all types of insulating materials, conduction is not the sole mode of heat transfer (20.3)*.” “The total conductance is the sum of a component resulting from radiation and a component resulting from convection and conduction combined. These components can vary independently of each other (20.8)*.” 
     
    Fiberglass insulation manufacturers don’t like to test their products for all forms of heat transfer because “The movement of air through an insulation system, either by natural or forced convection, has a deleterious effect on thermal performance (20.2)*.” “Typical leakage rates in most structures are 6 to 10 air changes per hour (22.7)*”. “Air movement by infiltration through a building envelope must be limited if the space is to be maintained at a condition different from outdoors (21.9)*.” “Control of infiltration is an important strategy to assure thermal comfort and minimize energy use in buildings (22.7)*.” Some “insulating materials can reduce air infiltration and provide additional fire resistance and noise control. Insulation also increases interior thermal comfort by controlling interior mean radiant temperatures resulting in more uniform air temperatures within the enclosure. Proper use of insulation can reduce the size of heating, cooling and ventilating equipment, reducing initial costs as well as annual operating costs (20.14)*.” “It should not be assumed that leakage through the building envelope occurs primarily at doors and windows where there are visible joints. Studies have shown that leakage attributed to windows and doors constitute only about one-fifth of the total leakage. Leakage cracks and openings in walls and ceilings, especially at intersections, although not as obvious, make a far greater contribution to total leakage. Up to 70% of the total leakage openings were in walls, and up to 67% were through the ceiling, depending on the particular structure (21.9)*.” “The infiltration of a building is proportional to its leakage area. Reducing the leakage area by 20% reduces the average infiltration of the building by the same percentage (22.16)*.” 
     
    “The effectiveness of thermal insulation is seriously impaired when it is improperly installed. Where there is a 4% void area in R-11 wall insulation, the heat loss is increased by 15%. A 4% void in the insulation of an R-19 ceiling results in an increase of 50% in heat loss.* When thin wall insulation is installed vertically with air spaces on both sides, air interchange around the insulation increases the heat loss by 60% (20.8)*.” “To attain published or claimed thermal resistance values, it is essential to provide convection and infiltration barriers, to seal cracks in joints and to install insulation so that gaps and voids around and within the materials do not occur. It has been established that 3% edge gaps (stapling batts on the inside of the studs) around insulation can produce 30% loss in effective R value (20.2)*.” “A continuous air infiltration barrier is one of the most effective means of reducing air leakage through walls, around windows and door frames and at joints between major building elements (22.11)*.” “Effectiveness can be greatly reduced if openings, even very small ones, exist in the retarder. Such openings can be caused by poor workmanship during application, poorly sealed joints and edges, insufficient coating thickness, improper caulking and flashing, uncompensated thermal expansion, mechanical forces, aging and other forms of degradation.” Even an excellent vapor retarder is of little benefit if it can be bypassed by a current of air (20.10)*.” “The function of insulation is clear; it reduces energy loss from a surface operating at a temperature other than ambient. Optimum use of insulation can: (1.) reduce operating expenditures for energy, (2.) improve process efficiency, (3.) increase system output capacity or reduce required equipment capacity and its capital cost and (4.) reduce overhead, maintenance, fire and personnel insurance, and other plant expenses. The most important benefit of insulation is the energy conserved and resulting savings in fuel and power costs (20.10)*.” 
     
    In the average structures being built using fiberglass insulation, it is not uncommon to see 45% total heat loss in walls and 50% in ceilings. These figures do not take into account any loss of R-values due to compression in the cavities, which can add up to an additional 30%. 
     
    *Note: The above quotations are taken from the American Society of Heating, Refrigeration and Air-conditioning Engineers (ASHRAE) Fundamentals Handbook

21. In my experience, the single
    In my experience, the single point of failure for sealing stick framed buildings is the wall to foundation joint. Simply putting a foam pad between the mudsill and concrete foundation does nothing more than reduce air flow into the crawl space. Air can still move upward behind the siding and housewrap, and enter the wall cavity above. No one want to own this joint. Neither framers nor siding crews seem to know what to do. I have had some success with applying a urethane caulk along the masonry top edge, but this can interfere with wall drainage. Also, caulking the inside of the wall along the base-plate helps. Even EnergyStar rules have you seal all external wall electrical boxes as they assume you will have air movement in the wall cavity. Yet another reason that I do not stick frame outside walls anymore.

22. On the point of that wall-to
    On the point of that wall-to-foundation joint, JLC is actually on a jobsite of ours following along as we build a sort-of-hybrid house where the addition will be highly energy-efficient and can be isolated from the old cottage we are attaching it to. I’m using a rubber gasket under the sill plates now for this very reason. It’s the only material I use now. I’ll try to attach a link to that piece here. This house will be airtight with smart membranes and dense-packed throughout the walls and roof. http://www.jlconline.com/energyefficient-construction/a-net-zero-addition-on-cape-cod_o.aspx?dfpzone=coastal&utm;_source=newsletter&utm;_content=jump&utm;_medium=email&utm;_campaign=COCO_011315&day;=2015-01-13&he;=568b299884f239ae2371ccf6d35ac8aeb5db98bf

23. Mike, you are missing my
    Mike, you are missing my point. The joint UNDER the sill (mud) plate and on the foundation is not the issue. It is from the mud-sill upward that is my concern. Now perhaps if the rubber gasket were to extend toward the outside several inches and could be folded upward and fastened onto the outside sheathing prior to attaching the housewrap, you might be onto something. Hold the housewrap short a couple of inches and then use builder’s tape to attach the housewrap to your gasket. I like that.

24. Gotcha Thom, same page with
    Gotcha Thom, same page with you now. We’ll actually be doing something similar to that on this one. Our air barrier is going to wrap down the exterior, over that gasket, and through a series of steps with primers and tapes actually attach to the concrete foundation below the gasket. Notjing will ever be perfect, but we’re working towards it and by doing so getting better and better.

25. In my experience, the single
    In my experience, the single point of failure for sealing stick framed buildings is the wall to foundation joint. Simply putting a foam pad between the mudsill and concrete foundation does nothing more than reduce air flow into the crawl space. Air can still move upward behind the siding and housewrap, and enter the wall cavity above. No one want to own this joint. Neither framers nor siding crews seem to know what to do. I have had some success with applying a urethane caulk along the masonry top edge, but this can interfere with wall drainage. Also, caulking the inside of the wall along the base-plate helps. Even EnergyStar rules have you seal all external wall electrical boxes as they assume you will have air movement in the wall cavity. Yet another reason that I do not stick frame outside walls anymore.

26. On the point of that wall-to
    On the point of that wall-to-foundation joint, JLC is actually on a jobsite of ours following along as we build a sort-of-hybrid house where the addition will be highly energy-efficient and can be isolated from the old cottage we are attaching it to. I’m using a rubber gasket under the sill plates now for this very reason. It’s the only material I use now. I’ll try to attach a link to that piece here. This house will be airtight with smart membranes and dense-packed throughout the walls and roof. http://www.jlconline.com/energyefficient-construction/a-net-zero-addition-on-cape-cod_o.aspx?dfpzone=coastal&utm;_source=newsletter&utm;_content=jump&utm;_medium=email&utm;_campaign=COCO_011315&day;=2015-01-13&he;=568b299884f239ae2371ccf6d35ac8aeb5db98bf

27. Mike, I will have to be very
    Mike, I will have to be very skeptical of bonding anything directly to concrete, especially with tapes. I really like the concept of using the gasket turned upward onto the wall face and using tape with mechanical fasteners to tie it into the house wrap. That connection would be totally protected from the weather and be part of the water shedding plain.

28. Mike, you are missing my
    Mike, you are missing my point. The joint UNDER the sill (mud) plate and on the foundation is not the issue. It is from the mud-sill upward that is my concern. Now perhaps if the rubber gasket were to extend toward the outside several inches and could be folded upward and fastened onto the outside sheathing prior to attaching the housewrap, you might be onto something. Hold the housewrap short a couple of inches and then use builder’s tape to attach the housewrap to your gasket. I like that.

29. Gotcha Thom, same page with
    Gotcha Thom, same page with you now. We’ll actually be doing something similar to that on this one. Our air barrier is going to wrap down the exterior, over that gasket, and through a series of steps with primers and tapes actually attach to the concrete foundation below the gasket. Notjing will ever be perfect, but we’re working towards it and by doing so getting better and better.

30. Mike, I will have to be very
    Mike, I will have to be very skeptical of bonding anything directly to concrete, especially with tapes. I really like the concept of using the gasket turned upward onto the wall face and using tape with mechanical fasteners to tie it into the house wrap. That connection would be totally protected from the weather and be part of the water shedding plain.

31. Folks when it comes to air
    Folks when it comes to air-sealing OC has a product called energy complete that gets the ACH50 in the 1.5 to 2.5 range consistently when installed properly. They are addressing the air-leakage issues.

32. This has all been very
    This has all been very interesting. From my view, I deal with insulating the sill by spraying foam where possible in unfinished basements and crawls because that is what I do , a sort of retrofit fix long after construction is completed and the home has settled and the wood has contorted to allow mother nature in. Sure I can seal baseboards and receptacles and around windows,and doors from wall air entry to the living spaces, but the many homes that were built previously don’t have the technology you modern day builders are discussing here! I always tell clients that I am not a builder, just a retrofitter. I hope OC and other companies follow this airseal movement but I distrust its ability to stop conduction, convection and radiation all simultaneously. Roxul seems to be a better choice because it is more of a ductile material and really expands fully when its packaging is removed. Glas fibers do not heal themselves after being crushed into bags, bundles and trucks,then attics and walls. A drinking glass filled with steamy hot water feels like hot but in a styro foam cup feels better. Hope that made sense! I also don’t believe that subs that install fiberglass care or are trained to care about long term results- seems like a take the money and run mentality for some. I even see batts missing in walls with my thermal camera and also mis directed( paper not facing the conditioned spaces)I think the industry has a long way to go, maybe this spray foam alternative has given them reason to look again. Great discussion her guys, I love to hear modern day builders discuss these things when their motives are for their customer’s comfort in the long term.

33. I just checked on
    I just checked on energyComplete and LOL &nbsp; <br />Matt Risinger4 months ago&nbsp; <br /> &nbsp; <br />Luke, I’m no longer using this system or promoting it. They have re-formulated the way it’s applied and I’m not a fan. This house blew around 2.5ACH50 but I’m not sure their reformulated system would produce those results. &#65279;

34. Folks when it comes to air
    Folks when it comes to air-sealing OC has a product called energy complete that gets the ACH50 in the 1.5 to 2.5 range consistently when installed properly. They are addressing the air-leakage issues.

35. This has all been very
    This has all been very interesting. From my view, I deal with insulating the sill by spraying foam where possible in unfinished basements and crawls because that is what I do , a sort of retrofit fix long after construction is completed and the home has settled and the wood has contorted to allow mother nature in. Sure I can seal baseboards and receptacles and around windows,and doors from wall air entry to the living spaces, but the many homes that were built previously don’t have the technology you modern day builders are discussing here! I always tell clients that I am not a builder, just a retrofitter. I hope OC and other companies follow this airseal movement but I distrust its ability to stop conduction, convection and radiation all simultaneously. Roxul seems to be a better choice because it is more of a ductile material and really expands fully when its packaging is removed. Glas fibers do not heal themselves after being crushed into bags, bundles and trucks,then attics and walls. A drinking glass filled with steamy hot water feels like hot but in a styro foam cup feels better. Hope that made sense! I also don’t believe that subs that install fiberglass care or are trained to care about long term results- seems like a take the money and run mentality for some. I even see batts missing in walls with my thermal camera and also mis directed( paper not facing the conditioned spaces)I think the industry has a long way to go, maybe this spray foam alternative has given them reason to look again. Great discussion her guys, I love to hear modern day builders discuss these things when their motives are for their customer’s comfort in the long term.

36. I just checked on
    I just checked on energyComplete and LOL  
    Matt Risinger4 months ago 
     
    Luke, I’m no longer using this system or promoting it. They have re-formulated the way it’s applied and I’m not a fan. This house blew around 2.5ACH50 but I’m not sure their reformulated system would produce those results. 

37. Just attending IBS I found
    Just attending IBS I found this new item…problem solved.&nbsp; <br />http://www.foams.saint-gobain.com/Gasketing/Accuframe.aspx

38. Just attending IBS I found
    Just attending IBS I found this new item…problem solved. 
    http://www.foams.saint-gobain.com/Gasketing/Accuframe.aspx

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